Legendary Etude [55 or 57]

[rayword45]

Looking in the Classical section, this is listed as a 55, while Tambourin Chinois is listed as a 57. This I cannot understand at all.

Legendary Etude was originally a 9, but it was one of the songs considered a cutoff along with songs such as OTFD (although LE is more of a technical file compared to OTFD's stream). The file starts off very tame. Some 16th gallops, and then 16th stream for a while (150BPM). While there are some runningmen and 3-fingered rolls, the BPM is really too slow for it to be much of a problem. It remains no harder then this for 3/4ths of the files.

Towards the ending, we have 2 fairly tame bursts within the stream, which some may trip up on, but again, not unreasonable at all for a 9.

Then we have sections like the first two parts of this image. [stolen from ilikexd]



48th grace notes are sprinkled generously, and they come out as 1-frame transitions, meaning hitting it as a hand or a 32nd burst both are risky of coming out as a good.

The third section of the image is the ending, omitting some rather tricky shorter 32nd bursts directly before it.

Compare this to Tambourin Chinois, which has less tricky bursts although there are more, and no grace notes.

Also, the song has only 148 AAAs compared to other former borderline 9s such as OTFD with 418 and Forsaken Neon with 358, while having more plays then both.

Thoughts?

[stavie33]

There seems to be a trend with long and annoying files that aren't extremely difficult but just tricky to have worse scoreboards than other files because people don't like to whore them. In contrast Chinois is very short and thus easy to whore. There are songs like Greensleeves which even simple, I BF'd once while not looking and then just got frustrated with the long and boring easy file and started messing up early on and quit, then AAA'd first try later. Long annoying songs explain scoreboard trends like that, but let's look at the file's patterns.

Regardless Legendary Etude is a tricky AAA mainly due to the ending, you can hand all the grace notes and hands are now common on files easier than it, and they aren't that frequent. Other than that the jumpstream is very simple and at a relatively tame pace. The only challenge is the ending, with the 32nd wall which can be jumptrilled, and at the same time is not too fast to roll either. The roll change however is hard, but nothing we haven't seen in C's like Tori no Uta and Divinity. Tamborine Chinois is short, but is full of bursts of varying speeds, many leading into 16th transitions that even though they flow well, are trickier than just handing the grace notes (which are far more infrequent). Chinois pretty much has a burst at the start of every stream, as well as bursts coming out of jumps into alternating jump patterns that return to streams. Legendary Etude's streams are very very simple.

So pretty much we're comparing like 8 parts of one 3 minutes song, where all can be handed but the ending, to a song that for a minute straight throws faster stream and jumpstream with bursts of varying speed littered in between. I think Chinois is relatively harder. But look at songs like Reality compared to songs like Flesvelka. Flesvelka is not FGO, Reality is clearly harder, yet Reality has far more AAA's. Scoreboards aren't always the best way to go, especially since technical files generally have one or two PA killers but the rest of the song is suuuuuper easy, while some other files are consistently far more difficult but don't have PA killers, just require more speed and reading ability.

Many are asking how we rate files. For me, I rate them going by a few things, and PA difficulty is only one part. I rate by pattern comparison, speed, endurance, FC'ability, AAA'ability, readability, length, control required, and scoreboards. In this case Legendary Etude beats out Chinois only in AAA'ability, scoreboards, and length IMO. It maybe be able to move up to 56 but that's another decision I'll have to examine.

I think the better option than moving Legendary Etude up is moving Chinois down. I actually think Legendary Etude is one of the easiest 55's (with Otter's Dance and Fly Away?) however Chinois is too high IMO, and should be moved down to 56.

EDIT: Both OWA and I have agreed to leave Legendary Etude at 55, move Chinois to 56, and Otter's Dance to 57.

Leaving thread open for 7 days for discussion

[nickcool9999]

I do agree on the ending of this song, which is ridiculously hard to AAA, but the song itself is just one burst after another. This song is considered (in the old rating system) a low 9 because of how simple the file is. The only thing that keeps this file so high of a difficulty is the fact that it's extremely long.

For example: Max Forever has a far lower difficulty and is harder to AAA. So is {Arabian Assassin}. Are you forgetting the list of much harder songs such as Delirium, Pretty much every 49 and then some?

Keep as 55.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

I'm inclined to agree for reasons of the OP's posting.

Song's a whore.

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by nickcool9999

I do agree on the ending of this song, which is ridiculously hard to AAA, but the song itself is just one burst after another. This song is considered (in the old rating system) a low 9 because of how simple the file is. The only thing that keeps this file so high of a difficulty is the fact that it's extremely long.

For example: Max Forever has a far lower difficulty and is harder to AAA. So is {Arabian Assassin}. Are you forgetting the list of much harder songs such as Delirium, Pretty much every 49 and then some?

Keep as 55.

Max Forever is practically a VC in terms of AAAing, and I'd agree with bumping it to a 57 for all I care. Sure it's simple, but it's LONG and the ending is loaded with slow trills that can screw you over.

Arabian Assassin is much easier, lol. The burst patterns, while more constant, are slightly over half the speed (??? 24ths over 150bpm 48ths). Plus, it's ultra-short, and pretty whorable.

Delirium is nothing but simple consistency.

[ilikexd]

Yes
Very low AAA / date added+plays count [ it's not even THAT long ]
lots of runningmen/anchors
Grace notes next to jumps, then grace notes next to jump in jumpstream = super goodbait
hard ending which IMO can't be easily jumptrilled

[One Winged Angel]

The only part of the file that threw it into former high 9 range is the ending. The 48th gallops into jumps strewn about throughout the chart can be hit as pseudo-hands without destroying your PA (I'm suspecting that's how most players hit them regardless, intentional or not).

Still, the file has an incredibly low AAA count. I don't know if that's because the spike is at the very end of the file and most players get nervous at that point, but the spike alone definitely isn't enough to push this into old VC range (56+ now).

Statistically speaking, 57/58 (perhaps higher?) seems like it'd be a better fit, but judging from the stepfile alone, 55 works. I'll talk to Alex about this one again, the stats on this definitely do not reflect how difficult the file should be.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

...the stats on this definitely do not reflect how difficult the file should be.

This is exactly what I thought. When I AAAd it, I looked at the stats and asked myself, "Where are all the AAAs?" and remembered how much difficulty I had AAAing it for it being a 9 at the time.

[SKG_Scintill]

Originally Posted by rayword45

48th grace notes are sprinkled generously, and they come out as 1-frame transitions, meaning hitting it as a hand or a 32nd burst both are risky of coming out as a good.

You should consider hitting them as 48ths

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill

You should consider hitting them as 48ths

And that's 9-worthy?

Seriously, no matter how you hit them, those 48ths are complete ASS for a 9. And the ending isn't too friendly either.

[SKG_Scintill]

if it were 48th stream no, but as a gallop I see no issue
the ending is climax theory, a file doesn't need its difficulty raised for just an ending

[MikeShinoda12345]

the gallops really aren't that hard lmao
even if they have some potential to ruin an AAA, that's only one aspect of song difficulty, and personally the main thing to focus on while AAA'ing are the two bursts and the roll wall. The gallops are negligible

[stavie33]

Originally Posted by rayword45

And that's 9-worthy?

Seriously, no matter how you hit them, those 48ths are complete ASS for a 9. And the ending isn't too friendly either.

Have you played Farewell My Little Basquet? We have 48ths all the way back to 7's like Improv et chien on the old scale. I pretty much said everything I want to say about the file in the original post, but I will talk this over with OWA. I do have a reason to attribute the low AAA count. It's something very common among these types of files and I've talked to many people about it and it seems this is the common reason. Pretty much you have a long, easy, boring file and then at the end it explodes into something ridiculous and you get like a BF or something people rage and just don't want to play it/whore it. This is the case with tons of 3:30+ long files with a few annoying PA parts, and the C's are among the least played and least known files. Rob and I were so confused on the 9's and realize no one gives a crap about a lot of them. So you have an annoying 9 that's somewhat long, somewhat simple, and with a horrible to PA ending, no one wants to whore it for the AAA. I'm sure there are enough players good enough that it's capable of exceeding 300 AAA's, but who wants to whore that file? Seriously? PA/AAA wise I still feel it's a 57 MAX, but with the rest of the file being arguably easier than 55, I feel it averages out to a 55 nicely. Once more, will discuss this again.

[One Winged Angel]

Talked this over with Alex, we're still inclined to keep this at 55 despite the fact that the stats on this aren't up to par with other files in this subgroup. We both believe that climax theory + long song made players reluctant to play this file for better scores back in the day (and even now), resulting in that lackluster scoreboard.

We'll leave this open for another 24h or so in case other players feel strongly about bumping this file up a few notches.

edit: locking