An Unbreakable Vow

[dooey100]

I've seen this concept in a number of books, some sort of promise that can't be broken, (usually due to magic). There are some variations, like the promiser dieing if they fail to do what they said, or being forced by some unknown power to either do it against their will, of have their will changed so they want to do it.

What I was wondering is: What would happen if there was something like this in real life? Would it be beneficial or not?

I think it would not be beneficial, I predict that it would encourage people to think: "Ha, he didn't make me promise with The Unbreakable Vow, that means I can do whatever I want."

Then people would begin using The Unbreakable Vow for all promises, knowing that that would be the only way the person would do what they promised. Which would essentially lead to the death of trust, because The Unbreakable Vow involves no trust, and no one would use "regular" promises anymore.


What do you think? Do you think there would be other benefits that outweigh these drawbacks? Or that things would not go as I think they would?

[Grandiagod]

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...5&postcount=14

[dooey100]

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...2&postcount=22

People often make up semi-unbreakable vows, I remember as a kid we would make "pinky promises" that we couldn't break. As we grew older we realized that these don't actually work.

Some people or groups often threaten with punishment for breaking a promise, I personally don't even see this as a promise, I see it as more of a contract. A good example is non-disclosure agreements. They basically say: You promise not to tell anyone what we are doing, or we fire you/blacklist your name/whatever the contract says.

That is why I think an unbreakable vow would end up being used, people are already trying to create artificial unbreakable vows. I also think that because unbreakable vows involve no trust (if the person has to follow through on their promise or die, you know they will follow through), then trusting someone would become a thing of the past.

I can't "prove" what would happen if there was an unbreakable vow because there isn't an unbreakable vow. If we assume that an unbreakable vow was invented or created, what do you think would happen?

[devonin]

You need to define terms more clearly for thought experiments.

Anyone can make an Unbreakable Vow, it is patently obvious that you've done so, and if you violate it you die? That's one version.

Are you bound by magic? Is that magic fallible? What are the consequences for breaking it, what about just ignoring it, is it purely voluntary to ever give such a vow, or can they be imposed as a legal sentence as in making someone give an unbreakable vow to never commit a certain crime again.

[dooey100]

Originally Posted by devonin

Anyone can make an Unbreakable Vow, it is patently obvious that you've done so, and if you violate it you die? That's one version.

Anyone would have to be able to make one. You would also have to know if one has been made, and not just take someones work for it. I think for the purposes of the experiment it would be better to say that your actions are guided by whatever force allows for this promise yo be made, until the promise is completed.

Originally Posted by devonin

Are you bound by magic?

Or some sort of advanced technology. I'm not sure if this makes a difference.

Originally Posted by devonin

Is that magic fallible?

No.

Originally Posted by devonin

What are the consequences for breaking it, what about just ignoring it

Explained above.

Originally Posted by devonin

is it purely voluntary to ever give such a vow, or can they be imposed as a legal sentence as in making someone give an unbreakable vow to never commit a certain crime again.

Thats an interesting thought. I think you would have to be the only one who can make the promise, no one else can make a promise for you, but that doesn't stop courts from allowing law breakers to go free if they make an unbreakable vow not to break that (the?) law again.



So basically, its like an everyday promise, but if you try to break it, you physically can't.

I'm not sure what would happen if someone tried to make a physically impossible promise. (I promise to live forever, or something like that) I guess your attempt to make the promise wouldn't work somehow. (You would have to be informed that it didn't work, of course)

[Xx{Midday}xX]

There are many mythical stories in shows like Unbelievable etc. about people facing predestined (usually detrimental) consequences for breaking "fate" or "prophecy" defined by a harbinger or psychic. I'm not really sure about the reliability of such sources, but they seem to be true.

Most Unbreakable Vows are not enforced by an external factor, but are caused by the victim's curiosity towards the future, or the desire to accomplish something supernatural. Either way, curiosity killed the cat. Hence, I won't be so foolish as to involve myself within such a predicament.

Even apparently dumb things like reading hands or drawing fortunes can sometimes turn your world upside down, according to those who've experienced it. Whether it was coincidence or not is for opinion to decide, but I tend to stay away from these things.

[LordTyriel]

In some ways you are, in fact correct. Unbreakable vows do seem like a logical thing to do but there a HUGE drawbacks. One would be the obvious one people would use it against you. Like dooey100 has already pretty much said already. Another would be that it would become the new "Promise" which would make people believe it to be harder to promise to someone else. Which in turn would corrupt everyone else's minds as to how the hell they could ever "Promise" to someone ever again.

That is all I have for now.

[devonin]

People just need to apply a little more by way of Kantian ethics to their life, and the need for such a thing goes away anyway.

[JonXia]

I just think it would directly affect your Karma (which I believe goes all through life) sso breaking a promise is bad, doing an unbreakable would certainly affect it to a pretty bad amount, or great if kept.

[devonin]

Um...if you can break it, then it wasn't an unbreakable vow. The whole point of the idea is "what would be the consequences if you could give a vow that was actually 100% totally unbreakable due to some sort of advanced whatever (technology, magic, whichever) such that once given you actually -could not- break it"

[Xx{Midday}xX]

What's a Kantian ethic?

[reuben_tate]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midday}xX

Even apparently dumb things like reading hands or drawing fortunes can sometimes turn your world upside down, according to those who've experienced it. Whether it was coincidence or not is for opinion to decide, but I tend to stay away from these things.

I think these fortune things works the same way the placebo pill works. The placebo pill is a sugar pill that the doctor gives you thinking your illness is all in the mind but you don't know its not sugar and you think you are getting better which makes you feel better (for those of you that don't know.) These fortune tellers tell you things that change how your mind might think and fuction later on creating certain and in some cases unwanted events due to your actions which are created by your thoughts that might have altered after seeing a fortune teller.

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Everyone finds something to blame based on the knowledge they're given.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by Xx{Midday}xX

What's a Kantian ethic?

Kant developed a code of ethics called the Categorical Imperative.

It can be summarized in a few simple tenets:

1/ Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.

2/ Act in such a way that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, always at the same time as an end and never merely as a means to an end.

The primary statement there is number 1/ and it basically says "You should act in the way that you would want every single person to always act all the time" And you should never act in such a way that it is actually impossible for everyone to always act that way.

Thus a Kantian would say "You should always keep your word" both because you would wish for everyone else to also always keep their word, and because it is a logical impossibility for everyone to do the opposite. If everyone always broke promises all the time, people would simply stop making or accepting promises, and thus could no longer act to always break promises. Since that is logically impossible to both always break promises and never give them, you should never break promises.

[UserNameGoesHere]

I can think of one unbreakable vow.

Vow that you will die at some point in time.

Unless you discover some way to prolong your life indefinitely, it is not possible for you to break that vow and I don't believe such a life-prolonging method exists or is even possible to exist at any point in the future.

[Xx{Midday}xX]

Not really a vow... I think. More like the inevitable.