Nader running 2004, HAHA Democrats....

[Specforces]

So, I'm an idiot Anti, sure buddy, obviously that was an overstatement.

[Laharl]

http://www.elftor.com/elftor.php?number=184

^
Truth about the political candidates. The democrats were already screwed.

[makaveli121212]

everyone with half a brain already knew that

[Specforces]

Yes the democrats are screwed, but that's fine with me.

[Anticrombie0909]

Ralph Nader will run as an independent. He already announced on the news that he plans to get his name on the ballot as an Independent in all 50 states.

[makaveli121212]

if he supports gay marriage the race is officially i repeat OFFICIALLY over

[Anonymous]

personally, i think nader is secretly a conservative. he wants bush to win.

[Anticrombie0909]

Well I'd say that cynically, but I think he's too liberal to support what Bush advocates.

if he supports #$* marriage the race is officially i repeat OFFICIALLY over

Nice to know we can make blanket statements like that and KNOW that we're right. Maka, use common sense. If it were that big of a deal, and the entire country felt a certain way, Kerry wouldn't be stupid enough to support it. He's a smart guy (unlike Bush), he's been planning this since his early 20s, he's not about to screw it up and know he's doing so. There are plenty of people who support gay marriage, plenty of people that support Kerry one way or the other, and even more that just want to get Bush the hell out of office. The race isnt' over yet, it's just beginning.

[makaveli121212]

yeah i know its hard for you to admit that bush has already won, but you just gotta face it...denial is difficult

[Burning_Cyclope]

mak, without Nader, Kerry has about as good a chance as Bush to win.

[Anticrombie0909]

I can't believe there are actually people here that support Bush. Let's count the ways he fucked up his term:

1: He lied to the American people about Saddam posessing Weapons of Mass Destruction, and indirectly linked 9-11 to Saddam
2: After finding nothing, he went to war anyway
3: He had a 'shoot first and ask questions later' war policy that resulted in billions of wasted dollars and hundreds of thousands of troops in Iraq and nothing to do wtih them
4: He disregarded Nato, insulted them, and royally pissed off France
5: He passed the "No Child Left Behind" act, which needs no explanation as to how royally idiotic it is
6: He wants to blur the lines between church and state
7: He shot medicare prices through the effin' roof
8: He's also the least environmentally concerned (to put it nicely) President ever

He's a great role model, as well:
1: He paid his way through college
2: He used pot and cocaine as a teenager
3: He's a recovering alcoholic
4: He has the lowest I.Q. seen in a President since, like, ever
5: He used his dad's influence to gain power
6: He choked on a pretzel, yadda yadda...

Basically, he made one hell of a four years. A President that makes this many mistakes...come on. This isn't so much a race of issues or candidates as it is a race of "Get the idiot the hell out of office"

[makaveli121212]

youre forgetting something...the american public has forgot about all of that stuff...only the die hard people who actually affiliate themselves with a political party will look that in depth...the american public is all worried about gay marriage now...president bush is playing his cards perfectly, now everyone is focusing on an issue that bush has a distinct advantage over kerry on...kerry made a moronic move by taking a stand on the gay marriage issue

[Anticrombie0909]

Maka...you're an idiot. You think that people only start paying attention to what's going on around election time? Bush has done a lot of things to leave bad tastes in everybody's mouths. This one stand won't make or break the election, and beyond that, there's no clear cut decision that the American people are taking on this. There are many against it, but there are also many people for it. There are some who don't agree with gay marriage but they'll vote against the movement because it's a violation of the constitution- and it is. Bush is manipulating the constitution itself with this law. Amendments are supposed to protect civil rights, not restrict them. And in the "Land of the Free", restricting something that has no effect on the government seems pretty ill-advised and poorly judged.

[makaveli121212]

anyone thats christain will vote for bush and against gay marriage...sort of ironic that they would vote for someone that got us in many wars...the pastors are already preaching for him...and if you think gay marriage has no affect on the government youre insane...you get many special privlages on taxes and such when youre married, if it was just a moral issue maybe i can see your point, but the fact is that it isnt just a moral issue, it will definatley affect the government...bush cannot manipulate the constitution, you know that...congress is all that matters on that issue...you show me where the constitution says you are allowed to have single sex marriages...it doesnt say anything about it, so the constitution niether defends nor oblishes it...yet

[VxDx]

Maka...you're an idiot. You think that people only start paying attention to what's going on around election time? Bush has done a lot of things to leave bad tastes in everybody's mouths. This one stand won't make or break the election, and beyond that, there's no clear cut decision that the American people are taking on this. There are many against it, but there are also many people for it. There are some who don't agree with gay marriage but they'll vote against the movement because it's a violation of the constitution- and it is. Bush is manipulating the constitution itself with this law. Amendments are supposed to protect civil rights, not restrict them. And in the "Land of the Free", restricting something that has no effect on the government seems pretty ill-advised and poorly judged.

Socially, I'm quite liberal and dislike Bush. Politically, I'm quite conservative and like Bush. Just so you know.

How about this. Makaveli is a hardcore conservative, clearly. Anticrombie is a hardcore liberal, clearly. So, neither of you will convince the other. How about, instead of saying things like "you are an idiot" which makes the person saying it sound like an idiot because clearly they don't understand that not everyone thinks the same way as them, you realize that you won't convince the other, and things like "you are an idiot" are the worst possible thing you could try to start an objective arguement with.

Is bush's amendment a good idea (not politically, but socially)? No. Will it ever be passed? Probably not. Does it really matter with who we are choosing for president, considering that Bush can't make laws on his own, particularly amendments to the constitution? No. So, where are we? Right back where we started, with a liberal side and a conservative side, fighting for influence. So you disagree, big deal, the whole country does.