[Dev] Normal Token Revamp

[PrawnSkunk]

Normal tokens are in-game songs unlocked by discovering hidden locations around the site. These tokens were part of an on-going scavenger hunt that ended on May 1st, 2008. FFR has changed considerably over the past eight years, and many hints and locations have become nonsensical or impossible to find. It was obvious to us that Normal tokens were due for a revamp.

Rushyrulz has collaborated with FFR staff to propose new unlock requirements for all Normal tokens. We would like to rebrand Normal tokens as “Achievement tokens,” unlocked by satisfying long-term requirements in-game. Players will keep any Normal tokens they own, regardless of the updated requirements. We hope to add more Achievement tokens in the future to fill in the gaps between requirements. In addition, the graphics for all Normal tokens will be replaced.

We’d love to hear your thoughts and suggestions on repurposing Normal tokens! If this development proposal is well received, the complete revamp will happen in June 2016.

— FFR Development & Design

---

Original Normal Token Requirements:

[Difficulty-45] Hardcore of the North		Hidden Token
[Difficulty-39] Xuxa				Hidden Token
[Difficulty-58] Takecore of Yourself		Hidden Token
[Difficulty-34] Tsugaru 180 New Version		Hidden Token
[Difficulty-40] {Satori}			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-29] Psychosis			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-40] Sifon				Hidden Token
[Difficulty-42] Anubis				Hidden Token
[Difficulty-51] EHHS v2				Hidden Token
[Difficulty-16] Silence V2			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-49] Attack of One Minute		Hidden Token
[Difficulty-34] Roller coaster ride		Hidden Token
[Difficulty-46] Naisyaodakunyan			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-12] CIA Rave V2			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-47] Fall				Hidden Token
[Difficulty-39] Samurai Road			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-42] Forza Azurri			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-57] Ride Out			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-35] Bike Thief			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-34] Kagami				Hidden Token
[Difficulty-54] Sunny Star Carnival		Hidden Token
[Difficulty-57] Kakke Ecko			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-10] Strawberry			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-72] Gaussian Blur			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-18] Ice Candy Pop			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-28] Field of Snow [Standard]	Hidden Token
[Difficulty-20] Rocking Ass			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-61] Sicilian Sun			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-44] Korean Madness			Hidden Token
[Difficulty-82] World End's Yama Xanadu		Hidden Token
[Difficulty-37] Orchestral Angels		“1 Billion Grandtotal”
[Difficulty-51] Happy Rainbow			“Average Rank 1,000”
[Difficulty-42] Quickdraw			“Full Combo 50% of Songs”
[Difficulty-19] Slow Motion (Wipeout Pure Xtra)	“Multiplayer Level 10”
[Difficulty-88] Here We Go			“Full Combo 95% of Songs”
[Difficulty-70] PianoCore			“Play 100% of Public Songs"
[Difficulty-85] Game Genie			“AAA 50% of Songs”

Proposed Achievement Token Requirements:

Songs Passed
[Difficulty-10] Strawberry			"1 Hour Playtime"
[Difficulty-20] Rocking Ass			"10 Hours Playtime"
[Difficulty-34] Tsugaru 180 New Version	 	"25 Hours Playtime"
[Difficulty-39] Xuxa	 			"50 Hours Playtime”

Max Combo
[Difficulty-12] CIA Rave V2			"250 Max Combo"
[Difficulty-19] Slow Motion (Wipeout Pure Xtra)	"500 Max Combo"
[Difficulty-35] Bike Thief	 		"1000 Max Combo"
[Difficulty-45] Hardcore of the North	 	"2000 Max Combo"
[Difficulty-57] Ride Out	 		"2500 Max Combo"

Grandtotal
[Difficulty-16] Silence V2			"100 Million Grandtotal"
[Difficulty-37] Orchestral Angels	 	"1 Billion Grandtotal"
[Difficulty-42] Forza Azurri	 		"3 Billion Grandtotal"

Tier Points
[Difficulty-18] Ice Candy Pop	 		"1/X Tier Point on any Song"
[Difficulty-40] {Satori}	 		"2/X Tier Points on any Song"
[Difficulty-54] Sunny Star Carnival	 	"3/X Tier Points on any Song"
[Difficulty-58] Takecore of Yourself	 	"4/X Tier Points on any Song"

Skill Rating
[Difficulty-28] Field of Snow [Standard]	"Skill Rating Lv.10"
[Difficulty-34] Roller coaster ride		"Skill Rating Lv.20"
[Difficulty-44] Korean Madness	 		"Skill Rating Lv.30"
[Difficulty-51] EHHS v2	 			"Skill Rating Lv.40"
[Difficulty-61] Sicilian Sun	 		"Skill Rating Lv.50"

Full Combos
[Difficulty-29] Psychosis	 		"Full Combo 100 Songs"
[Difficulty-39] Samurai Road	 		"Full Combo 250 Songs"
[Difficulty-42] Anubis	 			"Full Combo 500 Songs"
[Difficulty-42] Quickdraw	 		"Full Combo 50% of Songs"
[Difficulty-88] Here We Go	 		"Full Combo 95% of Songs”

Purchased
[Difficulty-34] Kagami	 			"Purchase 25% of Songs"
[Difficulty-46] Naisyaodakunyan			“Purchase 50% of Songs”
[Difficulty-72] Gaussian Blur	 		"Purchase 100% of Songs"

Average Rank
[Difficulty-40] Sifon	 			"Average Rank 10,000"
[Difficulty-47] Fall	 			"Average Rank 5,000"
[Difficulty-51] Happy Rainbow	 		"Average Rank 1,000"

AAAs
[Difficulty-49] Attack of One Minute	 	"AAA 100 Songs"
[Difficulty-57] Kakke Ecko	 		"AAA 250 Songs"
[Difficulty-82] World End's Yama Xanadu	 	"AAA 500 Songs"
[Difficulty-85] Game Genie	 		"AAA 50% of Songs"

Songs Played
[Difficulty-70] PianoCore	 		"Play 100% of Public Songs"

[rushyrulz]

I'm hype.

[happyhardcor3]

this is great, however once the requirements change if I've already met the new requirement do I automatically get the token im missing?

[hi19hi19]

Oh holy shit the difficulties of the files unlocked actually match up approximately with the skill level of the players who are likely to unlock them at that time.


What is this, FFR having sensible and sustainable design? Am I dreaming?

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by happyhardcor3

this is great, however once the requirements change if I've already met the new requirement do I automatically get the token im missing?

Depending on the token, yes. It may be required to pass a song or visit levelranks to verify the unlock, but you will be awarded any tokens that you have completed the requirement for.

@hi19hi19

[XelNya]

I absolutely disagree on using tier points for tokens in ANY way.

Edit: Also pianocore's difficulty to unlock time investment wise is a little low given the difficulty of the file. (Harder file should be made the reward.) I LOVE that req and honestly feel like the tier point ones would make way more sense there, but we totally need a newer file to kinda occupy that 100% slot.

Edit 2: Why would you have set amounts for the "FC X Songs" req then go to percents? Should be one or the other all the way through.

On Pianocore actually, you could make ehhs v2 a skill token and change it to

Skill Rating
[Difficulty-28] Field of Snow [Standard] "Skill Rating Lv.10"
[Difficulty-34] Roller coaster ride "Skill Rating Lv.20"
[Difficulty-44] Korean Madness "Skill Rating Lv.30"
[Difficulty-51] Sicilian Sun "Skill Rating Lv.40"
[Difficulty-61] Pianocore "Skill Rating Lv.50"

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Edit: Also pianocore's difficulty to unlock time investment wise is a little low given the difficulty of the file. (Harder file should be made the reward.) I LOVE that req and honestly feel like the tier point ones would make way more sense there, but we totally need a newer file to kinda occupy that 100% slot.

Definitely a discussion we had. We were trying to keep as many original requirements as possible because certain songs, PianoCore included, have earned a reputation as a rather exclusive token. As it turns out, a lot of the previous achievement token requirements matched up to song difficulty quite well, PianoCore being a bit of an exception. While I think the file is not up there difficulty-wise, I think that the quality of the stepfile itself (fun, challenging) is deserving of the requirement.

What reasons do you have for excluding tier points as requirements? I had a few reservations myself, but I'd like to hear your reasons as well.

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by XelNya

I absolutely disagree on using tier points for tokens in ANY way.

Could you state why?

Tier points have no display purpose other than a number that you met a score requirement on any given song and is displayed in a bar format on your profile.

Having the Tier Point tokens gives Tier points more purpose than the bare purpose they currently have.

You can get up to 50 tier points by AAA'ing the majority of the song base, and that doesn't unlock those specific tokens because it requires 1-4/x and the TP -> AAA is just a number.

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Edit 2: Why would you have set amounts for the "FC X Songs" req then go to percents? Should be one or the other all the way through.

If all the FC/AAA requirements were percentages, they would gradually get more and more difficult to unlock over time. With fixed values on the lower end, it provides a reasonable, even goal to strive for at the lower levels. The lower numbered requirements actually don't get noticeably easier or harder when new songs enter the game, since it's an arbitrary goal that can be achieved by FCing/AAAing the n easiest songs for you.

On the other side of the coin, we want to keep requirements such as Game Genie and Here We Go relatively the same difficulty, even after new songs are added. The way that can be managed is with a percentage requirement. If a numeric value was tacked onto those tokens, when 20XX rolls around, 1700 FCs doesn't seem like such a big deal. The purpose of these tokens being percentages is that they need to remain mainly skill-based, and not persistence based.

EDIT: Gradiant sums this up nicely in a later post.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

What reasons do you have for excluding tier points as requirements? I had a few reservations myself, but I'd like to hear your reasons as well.

My reasoning is entirely based in that they are absolutely pointless. Especially now with the skill rating system existing and doing it's job, but totally better.

There is absolutely zero offered to the table from them now. What purpose do they serve? A way to measure one's skill? Sorry. Skill rating already does that. Better even. A list of high difficulty songs with arbitrary point values assigned to them is literally just that.

Now. Rates recording kinda opens a new avenue for tier points and I'll give it that. You could change tier points to be based on rate scores, and I think having dabbled in rates a little more than I used to myself, I'd be interested in seeing this as a feature to give the fact rates record now a little more use. (But please never take the osu path of ranking on songs. That is literally my worst nightmare now days.) In fact, if I hadn't gotten kinda hooked on watching Staiain play SM, I'd be pretty peeved rates record.

Then they'd have value again, I guess. And be worthy of a token or two.

[Gradiant]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Edit 2: Why would you have set amounts for the "FC X Songs" req then go to percents? Should be one or the other all the way through.

When I was a newer player I wasn't focused on 'let's FC 5% of all the songs on FFR', I wanted to FC like 10, or 50. Set low numbers are easier for newer players to work towards as a goal. As skill level progresses, %'s are nice as you can have a reward at 50% or 100% completion of the goal at the time with the possibility of keeping the same rewards for the same req while adding more tokens inbetween that can have fixed number reqs to fill in the gaps.

[RenegadeLucien]

Originally Posted by XelNya

Rates recording kinda opens a new avenue for tier points and I'll give it that. You could change tier points to be based on rate scores, and I think having dabbled in rates a little more than I used to myself, I'd be interested in seeing this as a feature to give the fact rates record now a little more use.

But should we really be shoving R^3 down people's throats?

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by RenegadeLucien

But should we really be shoving R^3 down people's throats?

of course

[Walrusizer]

Originally Posted by RenegadeLucien

But should we really be shoving R^3 down people's throats?

if it allows rates to mean something yes

[RenegadeLucien]

Well here's the deal with R^3 specific requirements:

R^3 doesn't work for me.

R^3 has never worked for me.

I don't know if I'm just an idiot who can't get it to work or what, but for me the correct R^3 offset is something like 3.28972398709385. 3 isn't enough, 4 is too much, even 3.5 doesn't feel right, and in the meantime every single song feels like I'm playing SSSG.

Am I the only one with this problem? Maybe so. Or else I'm just so attuned to Velo that switching to R^3 will never feel right at all. But unless I can be assured this problem is specific to myself, I just can't get behind any requirement that would force anyone to use what is, from my perspective, unusable.

[Deidara837]

Originally Posted by XelNya

My reasoning is entirely based in that they are absolutely pointless. Especially now with the skill rating system existing and doing it's job, but totally better.

There is absolutely zero offered to the table from them now. What purpose do they serve? A way to measure one's skill? Sorry. Skill rating already does that. Better even. A list of high difficulty songs with arbitrary point values assigned to them is literally just that.

The majority of the hard (~85?+) files I've played and have like 5+ TP on don't show up on my skill rating table. It's still nice to know how I'm doing on those files without having to dig deep. Also, rates are cool and all except that I'm only 0/0 offset stable on FP9, and I know that a lot of people still use 9.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by RenegadeLucien

But should we really be shoving R^3 down people's throats?

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Deidara837

The majority of the hard (~85?+) files I've played and have like 5+ TP on don't show up on my skill rating table. It's still nice to know how I'm doing on those files without having to dig deep. Also, rates are cool and all except that I'm only 0/0 offset stable on FP9, and I know that a lot of people still use 9.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...sub=Deidara837

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by RenegadeLucien

Well here's the deal with R^3 specific requirements:

R^3 doesn't work for me.

R^3 has never worked for me.

I don't know if I'm just an idiot who can't get it to work or what, but for me the correct R^3 offset is something like 3.28972398709385. 3 isn't enough, 4 is too much, even 3.5 doesn't feel right, and in the meantime every single song feels like I'm playing SSSG.

Am I the only one with this problem? Maybe so. Or else I'm just so attuned to Velo that switching to R^3 will never feel right at all. But unless I can be assured this problem is specific to myself, I just can't get behind any requirement that would force anyone to use what is, from my perspective, unusable.

Please give this thread a look and see if you are still having problems.
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=137914

[RenegadeLucien]

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

Please give this thread a look and see if you are still having problems.
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=137914

Yeah, I am. Every song gives me a different judge offset. It's ranged from pretty much 0, to as far as -1, and a bunch of stuff in between. I don't know how big a jump is enough to affect play but for me a difference of 0.2 would make me drop at least one random good, and a difference of more than 0.5 would make me drop many goods.

I don't know about you guys, but if I have to adjust my offsets for every song, there's something seriously wrong.

[Deidara837]

Originally Posted by RenegadeLucien

Yeah, I am. Every song gives me a different judge offset. It's ranged from pretty much 0, to as far as -1, and a bunch of stuff in between. I don't know how big a jump is enough to affect play but for me a difference of 0.2 would make me drop at least one random good, and a difference of more than 0.5 would make me drop many goods.

I don't know about you guys, but if I have to adjust my offsets for every song, there's something seriously wrong.

Mostly me on FPnot9