Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[bob bob]

Originally Posted by trumaestro

dood used Logic!
It's super effective!
Tass used I'm Tass!
It's super effective!
dood fainted!
Tass gained 9001 EXP. points!

I need to get out more.

Actually, Moderator pokemon wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Tasselfoot]

there was moderator pokemon in garbage bin once. all the mods picked users to be their pokemon, and we battled with them. changed their avatars, etc... was kinda fun, until it became ultra lame after a few weeks.

i think whorli STILL has her snorlax avatar up though? this was 2-3 years ago that we did the pokemon battles.

[Patashu]

I just had a crazy idea.

Instead of outright submitting to a central batch, you have to first run it by R1 simfile authors who have to 'witness' to your file being batch-worthy, either immediately or after any number of back and forth revision and critique sessions; only after you have 2 or 3 or more witnesses will it be considered to be part of the batch at all.

Assuming simfile authors care enough to provide critique and bounce files back and forth until they give the A-OK then it'll lead to a higher standard of simfile quality in the batch proper. The batch really shouldn't be the first thing you try (nor the only way to get critique on your files!) but the end result of a rigorous peer review process.

Oh, and there'd have to be some rule to inhibit simfile authors who witness for files that are objectively bad. Any thoughts?

[Bolth mannn]

Originally Posted by Patashu

I just had a crazy idea.

Instead of outright submitting to a central batch, you have to first run it by R1 simfile authors who have to 'witness' to your file being batch-worthy, either immediately or after any number of back and forth revision and critique sessions; only after you have 2 or 3 or more witnesses will it be considered to be part of the batch at all.

Assuming simfile authors care enough to provide critique and bounce files back and forth until they give the A-OK then it'll lead to a higher standard of simfile quality in the batch proper. The batch really shouldn't be the first thing you try (nor the only way to get critique on your files!) but the end result of a rigorous peer review process.

Oh, and there'd have to be some rule to inhibit simfile authors who witness for files that are objectively bad. Any thoughts?

please elaborate.

[Patashu]

1. you'd have a topic listing R1 simfile authors who are still active and available, their methods of contact and likely times they'll be available to test and discuss
2. you've made your file, hooray. now look at the list and send it to as many people as you like.
3. the r1 authors who pick up your file will look it over when they can, tell you everything they can find wrong, questionable or open to improvement in your file; if and only if they can find no errors beyond personal preference related issues or tiny, localized sync issue they will say yes to your file in the topic, otherwise they will ask you to improve it and send it again until everything is in order
4. once you have two (or three or whatever) r1 authors approving your file in the topic you can submit it to the batch (you'd have links to the specific posts that gave approval or something in the email) and it will be included
5. the (hopefully higher quality) prescreened batch is judged as normal
HIDDEN ALTERNATE 5: do away with the concept of a batch and include judges amongst the thread instead; once you have absolute approval from x number of judges and y number of regular simfile authors or more tass judges it when he's next able to and makes a decision.

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

there was moderator pokemon in garbage bin once. all the mods picked users to be their pokemon, and we battled with them. changed their avatars, etc... was kinda fun, until it became ultra lame after a few weeks.

i think whorli STILL has her snorlax avatar up though? this was 2-3 years ago that we did the pokemon battles.

It was that long ago? It seemed like only about a year ago... God how time files.

[Xandertrax]

That was originally was the file testing thread was for >.>

I'm not sure exactly what happened. But I completely support that idea.

[bluguerrilla]

It's too complicated for this process. Especially since with the terribad files that have no chance to survive, you don't really have to give much feedback.

In a perfect world people would resubmit their bad files after you give them feedback. Most of the time, they never do.


Peer reviewing is a cool idea but I don't see any really good reason to change how this is set up.

[Knoobish]

Originally Posted by bluguerrilla

It's too complicated for this process. Especially since with the terribad files that have no chance to survive, you don't really have to give much feedback.

In a perfect world people would resubmit their bad files after you give them feedback. Most of the time, they never do.


Peer reviewing is a cool idea but I don't see any really good reason to change how this is set up.

Actually, I feel like the peer review process would give better feedback on terribad files than the batch does. If (big if) people cared enough to give feedback, you'd get feedback a lot quicker than with the batch, which can often take 4-6 weeks to get done. The problem with not getting feedback for that long is that people have already moved on to stepping another file, and if your file is really bad then chances are you're not going to want to take the time to change it, especially if you're in the middle of something else.

Maybe a happy medium could be found between Patashu's idea and the current system. Make people who don't have a file in the game/file in the queue get 2-3 people with a file in the game/queue "ok" the file before it can be submitted. That way people who at least have the capacity to step a good file can just send in directly, while others who are less experienced simfile artists have to go through some sort of prejudging process before they're allowed to clutter the batch with low quality, instant-reject files. Experienced simfile artists are likely to have someone test their files anyways, so I don't think it's too unreasonable for newer artists to get a few people to OK the file. This is also a good way for newer artists to become a part of the simfile artist community, as they'll be talking to experienced artists and sharing ideas and the like.

[bluguerrilla]

Yeah, it's a great idea but it's hard to actually coordinate that many people. It's too many steps for this simple process.

That and if people want to improve their files, they can contact someone and express that they actually really do want good feedback.

Also, if you're not doing it half-right to begin with, there's almost no hope for improvement.


I've thought about this process a lot and initially thought it was a good idea but I really don't think it will work. I mean, look at the file testing threads, which requires almost no coordination and that fell through.

But what would it actually improve if this judging process works and people have their files tested beforehand?

[who_cares973]

anyone up for a collab on a kkrusty song ¿_?

[GG_Guru]

Count me in.

[Tasselfoot]

patashu: it just wouldn't work, for a few reasons. main reason is that FFR files are private... sharing the file for testing among a few friends is ok, and to the judges, but having it open in a "public" simfile author testing would spread more files out to more people.

also, i'm sure you've seen a ton of people say "omg, so-and-so and this-guy both said my file was amazing" where those 2 people are semi-qualified simfilers... you'd get a ton of that. it would result in more chaos, more confusion, me testing every file, etc. it wouldn't be orderly.

and, as blu said... the file testing thread was designed for that purpose. for the peer review of files before sending them in to the batch. whether people take advantage of that or not, *shrugs*.

[dood gone krazee]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

damnit dood. are you trying to confuse me with your LOGIC?

Seriously though I wanna step some SHI*TMAT

[bluguerrilla]

I want you to step Shitmat.

[robertsona]

how the fuck did you do that

[Zybanthia]

Quote him and find out. oh wait you ALREADY KNOW

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

also, i'm sure you've seen a ton of people say "omg, so-and-so and this-guy both said my file was amazing" where those 2 people are semi-qualified simfilers... you'd get a ton of that. it would result in more chaos, more confusion, me testing every file, etc. it wouldn't be orderly.

I tried to set it up so that it wouldn't. Either way you would need the judges to approve of it as well or it would never get to you as well, just that there's an added step of peer review.

Anyway, why don't you guys try to promote the file testing topic again? It would be a good intermediate step at the very least. Express that if it's not good enough for R1 authors it's not good enough for the batch either and you're going even further!

[Patashu]

hmm, maybe an additional restriction then? like 'has gotten file queued within the past x months' or 'has y or more files in game'

[Bluearrowll]

Yeah but I think the Queue/Batch or Tass would catch that later on.