So let's talk about QED stepfiles. (Let's talk about StepMania actually.)

[kommisar]

I'm speaking of most people here really. there was a time where people would still play older packs but less so now

[ddrxero64]

Originally Posted by kommisar

I'm speaking of most people here really. there was a time where people would still play older packs but less so now

It's hard to make general statements like this, and I'm starting to realize this. People argue over files being liked, and packs being played. But there's no 100% correct way of seeing what people actually like and play. You could conduct a test, but people could lie too. Knowing that a community always has trolls, there will be someone there to try and influence the results. And if even if you were right, less isn't defined, and can't be defined. It could still be more compared to newer packs, even though it's less than before.

We really should focus on actual physical facts from the past and use them to plan a better future. At least in my opinion.

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

Skimmed my way through this thread. I really wanted to take the time post something but I would like to believe that the majority of what I would like to say has already been covered to some extent. I will however make a few quick points out of some of these latest posts.

Originally Posted by kommisar

I'm speaking of most people here really. there was a time where people would still play older packs but less so now

To be honest, I only play the older packs. Maybe I'm just too oldschool for these young kids now, but that is what I usually play. Not that I don't try the newer stuff, I just enjoy the older stuff a whole lot more.

Originally Posted by JenovaSephiroth

Now for a mini nostalgia rant. I really miss the days of KBMP, F4, etc. Things were less stressful then. I don't know how likely it is to bring those times back. We've advanced too far, really. The perfect time to get into SM was five years ago. Today, not so much.

The golden age... I miss it too.


One thing, that I'm just going to stick in here; I have a few files, made years ago, that I've just been holding onto to release at some time. Created, for the most part, in an older style. I wanted to originally release them a log time ago in a small pack but based on opinions and feedback it appeared as though no one would really enjoy them other than myself and maybe a few other people. Some of these files were eventually submitted to packs, only one (China Junk) ever "made it", but for the most part I've kept them to myself and a few friends who I had help test them. Based on the feedback from this thread I'm wondering if I should compile my work and release them.

[Charlo]

It seems like everybody in this thread agrees that files these days are too focused on technical perfection, so the question is, why is everybody still releasing these files?

I remember I submitted a few things to the Astronomic Metal Collection 2 and N.T.M rejected them all outright for not having any pitch relevancy. In the end SulferDragon accepted some of them (thanks man). That's when I realized that "perfect" files had taken over, and I pretty much gave up trying to promote my files on here by submitting them to packs. However, I released all my files on stepmania.com and they have a good amount of downloads.

It would be nice to see some packs with easier files, because the hand-and-crossover-laden files these days are too darn hard for an arrow-key player like me.

[Arch0wl]

Great ideas here.

The decline of Stepmania and games like FFR are really odd to me too -- a game like FFR was popular independent of Dance Dance Revolution. In fact, its popularity existed seemingly in spite of DDR. SM's popularity, in turn, feeds off of FFR's popularity. What, then, caused the decline of popularity in games like FFR and KeyBeatOnline? Several things.

DDR was the source of a lot of activity in the Stepmania community. But DDR, in the public's mind, was a gimmick. You don't double down on that sort of thing -- yo-yos, as you've noticed, have not recovered to the levels of their initial fad popularity. DDR's the same way. And given that arcades in general are dying, the likelihood of DDR springing back from recovery is unlikely. Okay, there are home sales. But home play isn't competitive, and you need that kind of arcade competition to make a scene that ignites the kind of community spark we once had.

Unfortunately for us though, music games in general are a sort of fad. They're driven in part by novelty value. For most people, even something as solid as KeyBeat doesn't register as "wow, this is a great engine." It registers as "okay, I've seen this shit before."

But the biggest reason, I think -- and this is total speculation -- that it's because people are exploring the internet less. Internet forums in general are on the decline; why use forums when you can use facebook? Or reddit, even? And that's what the average person in FFR's age demographic is going to do. When they get into "goof off mode", their default location is Facebook. And, surprise, that's also where all of their goof offy flash games are. They can't use Facebook? iPhone. Doesn't matter. Aggregator websites are becoming the future. People are choosing instead to waste their time on large, centralized means of communication like facebook, YouTube, digg, reddit, and so on.

If you don't believe me, you can look at the decline of websites like SomethingAwful, GameFAQs, and Newgrounds. You may think they're different, but they all share a similar style of forum-like interaction. They all have a website community with resident popular kids.

If the casual-yet-competitive niche that FFR, Stepmania and KBO occupy is to stay popular well into the 2010s, they will need strong, detailed Facebook apps. Period. I severely doubt anything else is going to revive them into popularity.

[who_cares973]

Sadly arch is right and thirdstyle has the right idea.

[lnick]

Originally Posted by Charlo

It seems like everybody in this thread agrees that files these days are too focused on technical perfection, so the question is, why is everybody still releasing these files?

This is true but you can't expect people to stop doing the things they like to do, at least immediately, although i wasn't very sure what i was aiming to accomplish when i made this thread, but it's more of a mindset shift as in, it's fine and all to make tEcHNiCaL mAsTErPiEcEs and stuff but to be able to respect the fact that not everyone can make (or wants to make) something like that

and to be able to acknowledge that fact so we can embrace those people, as a real community and not just a small minority of people who like one style of doing things

[kommisar]

We make files like that to cater to our own niche of simfile makers. We find them fun and if we keep playing them, we'll probably keep making them. Get over it.

[Arch0wl]

The style of stepfile honestly is irrelevant in the long-term viability of the game; the files could be by QED or by stargroup and it wouldn't matter because they would both have zero impact on a large scale. What matters is the base level of easiness, the familiarity of music, the incentive systems, and so on. Mostly the incentive systems -- League of Legends is more popular than HoN almost entirely because its developers understand human psychology to a greater degree and can use that to their advantage in crafting addicting incentive systems.

[stargroup100]

Here's my take.

Yes, we cater to kind of a niche audience, but it's been shown that we easily appeal to a wide variety of people. What we need, like what most of you seem to be saying, is a way to get into people's heads and "convince" them into liking the game through some psychology. But I won't talk too much from this direction because it's not my main concern or topic of interest.

About the "elitism" of "technical perfection" when it comes to charts. I've been through the whole thing, from loving everything, to loving nothing, to loving select things, and finally to a point of balance. A lot of people have an incredible potential to make some really nice stuff. What makes a chart fun is, like I've said a million times, the interpretation and the creative concepts and style. Technicality is only a nitpick. Just because this ice cream sundae has too much whipped cream and not enough sprinkles doesn't mean you still can't still enjoy it. Ever since the Dark Chancellors Pack era, people seem to be catching on and understand what makes a good chart, and not just at our "elitist" level, but at a general level. People can and should make more charts, because this is how our community grows and shares.

That being said, it's obvious that I have no problem with "QED stepcharts." If you make "crappy" charts and you don't want to take advice from people who understand rhythm gaming better, that's totally fine. I don't think anyone cares. But if you don't know what you're doing but you have the balls to go around flaunting your skill, then we have a problem. I have no problem with QED, his charts, or the people who like his charts, but when you're terrible at making charts and you give a seminar about it at a major convention, explain your own bullshit theories, and even invite your technical director all the way from Germany, well I'm sorry, we are all laughing at you.

Arch0wl's recently organized "people who never made 6k charts before" pack turned out to be extremely successful, and really shows the plenty of people have very good potential and ideas, they simply need to make and release more stuff and not be afraid of what the "elitists" say. You can either listen to them or don't. We try to help but it's still YOUR work.

[Arch0wl]

Honestly technical perfection only starts mattering to you at a level where your tastes don't really matter anymore. So if it pleases the hardcore base, it's fine from a "I want this game to be big" standpoint.

There is one exception, though. There needs to be spectacle, because this is the kind of game that relies on audience. In other words, the game must have dramatic boss songs and they need to have a "holy shit" factor, even if that means putting technical perfection aside. Gaussian Mist 2 is the best boss song Stepmania's ever had, but even Through the Fire and Flames suffices.

[AsphyxZero]

dare i say...

FACEBOOKMANIAS

[FFR4EVA_00]

people are still talking about this

[BeatofIke]

Originally Posted by FFR4EVA_00

people are still talking about this

I guess so, but this thread was necessary. I spend about 2 hours reading this whole thread (about 90% of everyone's posts) cause I found it very interesting. How everything changes from then to now.

PS: Simply put: "Do you like making simfiles? Well I have to say that I love it very, very much. But soon everything will change, well at least it does eventually." Guess what reference I got this from?

[kommisar]

everyone will play ddr files

only we will play keyboard elitist files

everyone will play animu files

only we will play dat pu's anime art simfiles

[Jousway]

Originally Posted by kommisar

everyone will play ddr files

only we will play keyboard elitist files

everyone will play animu files

only we will play dat pu's anime art simfiles

"anime art simfiles" is it even posable to make an anime opening or song in to this so called "art" seeing that anime songs are boring like **** to step :>
like there is no way to make an anime file expressive as most files in pack's like dc and lc 1,2 and 3

[dAnceguy117]

Originally Posted by kommisar

everyone will play ddr files

isn't that a problem? (in terms of attracting new players, that is.) stepmania's popularity is definitely hindered by forcing beginners to sit through charts that are horrid to play on keyboard which accompany an extremely limited array of jpop and techno songs.

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

Gaussian Mist 2 is the best boss song Stepmania's ever had

I never thought of it that way, but it definitely could serve that purpose. the song is freakin' epic.

[kommisar]

unless we make better easy files it's the unfortunate truth

[Wineandbread]

Well we could............ make easy files (o:

[MarioNintendo]

Next batch, I'm sending an easy file.

Hopefully, I'm this generation's hero.