Pack in Progress: QED Anime Stepfiles 33-64

[kommisar[os]]

making simfile charts is like composing music that already exists; all you gotta do is write the sheet music. you can't invent notes that don't exist amirite.

[Patashu]

kil agrees

[gnr61]

Originally Posted by kommisar[os]

making simfile charts is like composing music that already exists; all you gotta do is write the sheet music. you can't invent notes that don't exist amirite.

c'mon man this is literally saying the only good way to make a file is to use strictly straightforward layering and as perfect PR as possible. YOU CANT MAKE CDEF AS 1324 BECAUSE ITS NOT THE SAME AS THE MUSIC AMIRITE.
u play ITG, i guarantee you play dozens of charts regularly that are not in the least technically accurate and have notes going to "nonexistent sounds" but no one complains about those :<

that said i haven't played or seen any of this guys files im just spewing stepman ideology

also the guy who seems to be universally hailed as "da worlds best simfile maker of all time his majesty" kil steps to "nonexistent" sounds all the fucen time and apparently he makes masterpieces while this guy makes cow vomit for the same reason

ps
king of the sea

[Djr Rap dancer]

Kil is so popular <3 rolf
He must be a robot lol

[QED Stepfiles]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

This isn't me attacking you, but being truthful--but what I seen was PR. Then again, I am judging on one file, but you hold true to your style strongly through this one file; it makes you seem like you step only one way, and that's not good.

Thank you very much for your well thought-out response. And I never thought you were attacking me – quite the opposite. I am quite appreciative of everything you have said. Allow me to try playing devil’s advocate though, since this way I can get the most out of this conversation and can help myself improve.

It may seem like very little variation, but I too also play piano, alongside with trumpet and a bit of guitar. I do understand relative changes in pitch, and there are many more than what your patterns are offering. You may be trying to keep a simple pattern, but a non-varying pattern is boring, especially when some people have a musically-trained ear. If the aesthetic of the file is to be (almost) like a type of sheet music, then it just strengthens the need for more pitch-relevancy. It is possible to get good variation while making your patterns flow, just take a look at any good ITG file; 16th streams with good variation in patterns. Why do I bring this up? Some people happen to play index, which make patterns flow nearly identical. And while you may believe that the source is invariant, you're completely wrong; you have a song that demands a ton of difficulty, technicality, and you are not providing it. There's a difference between a good set of patterns, and then just poor usage.

Yes, I understand that there is a lot more going on in the background than I give the song credit for. In a sense, it is definitely possible to write a song with a lot more pitch relevancy and deliver what seems to be a more technically polished product. But I tried to demand the following in this file:

(1) Even if you have not heard the song before, you should be able to play the file through fine on the first try. I.E. Given that you have reached a certain level of proficiency you should be able to sightread all of my files without trouble, and to the extent where you are not losing any of the musicality of the song.

(2) There are two major elements of the choruses of this song – the instrumental craziness in the background and the vocals. To achieve what I want in (1), I like for all my steps to be somewhat anchored in the vocals, since fundamentally the vocal part is the most concrete part of a song. Even if the background craziness obviously doesn’t match the vocals at various points (and indeed, often counters the pitch of the vocals), having steps that are loosely based on vocals grants the player the illusion that the pitch relevancy is correct (even if they’re not!), since what they hear is a smooth progression that somewhat fits the background craziness while being somewhat carried by the primary melody, which to me is a good way to represent the song in its entirety. In this sense, I’m making the song out to be more invariant than it actually is, but at the same time I do this so I can play a bit more with the vocals and achieve what I want in (1).

(3) Yes, I use staircase patterns a lot. Sure, perhaps you can blame this on the fact that I haven’t experimented a whole lot with other patterns, and this is a point to work on in the future. At the same time, staircases work in songs like this since they give an illusion of smoothness and help me achieve the melodic anchoring described in (2).

I think this is also a reason why a lot of people think my files are strange – much of my strategy depends on creating illusions to make my steps seem to fit even if they fail this criteria when put under a magnifying glass. But hey, if some people understand the method to my madness I can’t be completely insane (at least I hope not <_<)

While I do understand that your files are created for lower level players, the chart in discussion is a rather high level chart in comparison to other step-charts that you have made. Variation and technical sequences should not be secondary to you--especially with what you have noted here:

I think there was a bit of a miscommunication here. My target audience isn’t necessarily lower level players, although I think that my files are definitely easy enough to be readily accessible for them (I do write lower difficulties for all files too). My target audience is rather the group of people who are playing for the musical experience rather than for the game itself. Even the best of players I think can appreciate occasionally playing a not-too-difficult file just to enjoy the melody. This is also encouraged by the fact that anime songs usually have more well-defined melodies.

Obviously, rhythm does not have anything to do with variation/patterns, those are normally consistent. However, symmetry and musical accentuation are very important, and are tied deeply into pattern usage. Why is this? It goes back to the theory of pitch relevancy. Musical accentuation in best form is most noticeable through proper layering (i.e. representing a sound and assigning it to an arrow/specific pattern [Big SM steppers, please correct me if I'm wrong]). With that being said, you still have no excuse to explain your lack of variation.

I think I covered this in my three point thing up there, but ultimately what I’m trying to do with my pattern variation (or lack thereof) is to place my file somewhere in the middle of “completely following pitch relevancy” and “completely following the vocals.” Perhaps I did not achieve this effect to the fullest (and hey, I have two weeks to edit this file still), but like all my other files, I try to compromise between different parts of a song to represent the song as a whole the most effectively.

Well--back to the level of difficulty, you said that your files cater to those who are still learning the game. If the point is for your players to have a calm, not frantic experience, you've provided the exact opposite with a chart like this. Not hard to me personally, but for someone who is still learning the game, this is ridiculous. Yes, you've noted that it's your own style that you picked up, and yes you've said it's tough to judge on a convention sense--this is because your patterns are unorthodox in comparison to common charts.

Perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word “relax,” since I obviously don’t want you to play my files while you’re sitting back with your eyes closed. But what I do suggest is trying to play them without the intent of critiquing them. Yes, this sort of ruins the point of this conversation, and it may sound strange, but looking for problems is actually kind of self-fulfilling. It’s like playing a piano piece by Debussy (I’m not arrogant enough to compare stepcharting to writing classical music, but I’m just trying to make a point) – it all sounds horrible if you’re trying to pick apart the piece too closely, but if you just play the piece smoothly without worrying about that the undeniable beauty of it comes through.

I totally understand that you are trying to provide your own style, but it might be more beneficial to you to step a different style? Maybe combine both? I don't really know what to tell you here.

My style is definitely not perfect, and there’s definitely room for improvement. I want to improve (very much so), but I feel like there’s still so much room for growth in my own style that it would be hasty to suddenly say “well let’s just do something else then.” If you compare, for instance, a file I’ve written in the last couple months and a file I’ve written a year ago, there are definite stylistic differences. Suffice to say that I’m still in a relatively flexible, experimental stage of my stepping career, and I want to allow my own style to flourish first. That may result in more emphasis on pitch relevancy and technicality, but as of now I cannot fit those concepts in comfortably with my own aesthetic sense. All I can do right now is try out different things.

Who says all of us are keyboard players? Kommisar would know what good patterns are--you need to in order to make good pad charts too. If someone like Kommisar tells you that your patterns are bad or need work, you really should take a listen, because people who are fluent in both pad/KB chart have mastered patterns very well.

I very much respect Kommisar’s work, but as you’ve noted before it’s tough to judge my files in a conventional sense. So far Kommisar appears to have the most problems with the alleged “invisible 16ths” issue, but it’s really coming off as more of a misinterpretation of the file rather than something that I can use to make my files better. I was more looking for something along the lines of “well I can see what you were trying to do here in this pattern, but it would have been much more effective if you _____.” Just saying that a lot of my notes don’t go to audible sounds isn’t really helping, since it’s a fact I’m fully aware of and seems to me to be a product of a conscious stylistic choice rather than a mistake that needs fixing.

Anyway, that's my lecture for the day.

But yes, thank you for giving me your “lecture of the day” – it got me thinking a lot about my stepping style and where to go with it in the future. Believe me, this conversation is helping me a lot, and I appreciate the time you took to articulate your response. If you have any more words of advice to give, please don't hesitate to post them! I like having these types of conversations, and I'm pleasantly surprised that what had begun as an irritating out-of-the-blue "witch hunt" has turned into a mature discussion on methods of stepchart creation that is helping me develop my own style.

And yea Kommisar, I agree with gnr… I don’t see the chart as based on something inflexible that already exists – I see the chart as existing alongside the music rather than as an extension of that music. It’s like adding an additional instrument rather than just following the ones that already exist.

Oh my God, I really have to stop spending so much time on this forum though... homework to do and such =(.

[kommisar[os]]

i was quoting arch0wl on that one puppet haha


but some of the best charts aren't perfectly accurate as people put it. there will never be one definite way to step something because there will always be different styles and ways to make files fun. technical or no, it makes no difference as long as the game is enjoyable.



senorita oni.

[QED Stepfiles]

yupyup!

[ablefoxdog]

Can't wait to play Xepher. Reminds me of the old DDR days.
Keep up the good work QED. Really hoping to see more original stepfiles from you.

[Dimentio]

anime or not, I would much rather play something that makes me feel like i'm actually playing the song. throwing in random arrows and patterns are very midare/arch0wl-esque and are usually for people who prefer more of a challenge. I guess i appreciate more artistic work

[Lain_Iwakura]

shuffle it

[Typh00n203]

THIS JUST IN, STEPMANIA ISNT F***ing ART. That is all.

[Soulbringer]

Originally Posted by Typh00n203

THIS JUST IN, STEPMANIA ISNT F***ing ART. That is all.

I guess that depends how you look at it...

[kommisar[os]]

it's art if you're stargroup

[Typh00n203]

Originally Posted by Soulbringer

I guess that depends how you look at it...

I don't remember the last time I ever sat at my computer staring at someones stepmania chart and admiring it for its aesthetic qualities, or feeling the emotions of self expression that the stepper was trying to convey to me in his simfile.

If im not mistaken that is what art is, something that serves no purpose its just there being a form of self expression and to just purely exist for its self.

If it has a function it isnt art because it serves a purpose of some sort.

Simfiles serve the purpose to follow the musics rhythm and be played for enjoyment.

If Simfiles were art, QeD's self expression in his art would be that of a two year old.

QeD writes Paragraph upon paragraph trying to defend him self and attempt to look smart when in reality it just makes him look stupid and dense. I dont really care about his files I just find it halarious that he would stoop as low as to calling it art.

If people dont like your simfiles its too bad the file isnt fun.
But hey now that I think about it your files can be art since pretty much no one will play your files and then they will server no purpose, you can take a screenshot of the chart and post it up and we can all admire the arrows you took so much effort to place so we can stare and try and figure out the f**ked up emotions you were trying to convey to us in your arrow art.

[kommisar[os]]

[bluguerrilla]

****ing made me weep with joy.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by kommisar[os]

WIN

[-Barista-]

Originally Posted by kommisar[os]

it's art if you're stargroup

heh heh.

[Soulbringer]

Originally Posted by Typh00n203

I don't remember the last time I ever sat at my computer staring at someones stepmania chart and admiring it for its aesthetic qualities, or feeling the emotions of self expression that the stepper was trying to convey to me in his simfile.

So basicly, you did never try, to actually listen to the music and compare it to the stepfile? or is it just a long time ago you did it last? (yes thats actually a question, not a statement)
Stepfiles could be considered a way of expressing ones understandment of the music...
Music is considered an art and id call a stepfile a way to percieve the music (and yes expressing that understanding in a simple arrow scheme)

Originally Posted by Typh00n203

If Simfiles were art, QeD's self expression in his art would be that of a two year old.

QeD writes Paragraph upon paragraph trying to defend him self and attempt to look smart when in reality it just makes him look stupid and dense. I dont really care about his files I just find it halarious that he would stoop as low as to calling it art.

Back to slandering... Again...
It really depends on view point, as i said above its about how you "listen" to the music and then again how you convey it to others, OFC its going to be different from creator to creator (creators should respect other creators, just by the simple fact that they express some kind of understanding, in the same style as themselves).

I think Kommissar said it rather well earlyer in the thread

Originally Posted by kommisar[os]

making simfile charts is like composing music that already exists

Its quite rare for 2 people to understand the same piece of music in the same way.

[embarg0]

The music is the art, the steps is the wine following it.


Art is depended all on the person. Just becasue you don't like it doesn't mean others are all the way with you. If everyone liked the exact same thing, this would be a very dull world.