Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

[aTzUeLo1191]

Originally Posted by GasesAreFluids

I don't know a lot about the way newcomers play the game because I don't have access to the data to perform any statistical analysis, but I am sure there are plenty of people who come in and play very seldomly -- setting a 0.2 year mark might not really have a statistically significant effect.

What you could do is show the cumulative rating, and then if you click that rating, have it go to a page where it shows the breakdown of the votes by thresholds of average rank, for instance (or some other metric that is reasonably indicative of skill/time spent playing). For instance it might be like a table form of the following:

Average Rank 1-10: 5% gave 0, 15% gave 1, 15% gave 2, 25% gave 3, 25% gave 4, 35% gave 5
Average Rank 11-50: etc etc

That way you could sort of gauge a song depending on your own rank (or whatever metric you prefer)

lol Rubix.

Awesome idea, as long as the criticism stays positive this can do no harm. 100% Support.

[behanjc]

Originally Posted by Tasselfoot

you guys are the hardcore users...

Lol. Reminded me of smitty in more than one way.

I know it's just a novelty type feature. I just don't think it would be too hard to make it so you have to complete the song to rate it. Obviously the ratings will be slightly skewed no matter what.

[sjoecool1991]

Originally Posted by GasesAreFluids

I don't know a lot about the way newcomers play the game because I don't have access to the data to perform any statistical analysis, but I am sure there are plenty of people who come in and play very seldomly -- setting a 0.2 year mark might not really have a statistically significant effect.

What you could do is show the cumulative rating, and then if you click that rating, have it go to a page where it shows the breakdown of the votes by thresholds of average rank, for instance (or some other metric that is reasonably indicative of skill/time spent playing). For instance it might be like a table form of the following:

Average Rank 1-10: 5% gave 0, 15% gave 1, 15% gave 2, 25% gave 3, 25% gave 4, 35% gave 5
Average Rank 11-50: etc etc

That way you could sort of gauge a song depending on your own rank (or whatever metric you prefer)

So my votes would mean nothing because I dont care about average rank?
I have horrible average rank, because I have lots, and lots of 0s on songs in Dance I have never played, and will never play, simply because I dont want to bother to AAA them.
I cant AAA easy stuff, its too slow, and I always accidentally hit too early/late.

[Xx{Midday}xX]

So... this idea is still up and active, right?

[Linksbro]

I hope so.

[darkandmenacing]

With a generally honest and well-intentioned community,a well-made rating system will do wonders for FFR. I would definately endeavor to find a way to subscribe.

It'd be cool if there was a catagory for top 50 songs for the week, which would repopulate its self based on ratings for that week. Maybe even another for top rated new songs for the month? (Or however long makes sense for them to be there and give 'em a good chance to be rated.) Would make it easier to spot new stuff and make it more likely that they will get a substantial amount of people to rate them.

As for abuse, well, I'm sure there are people who will do try everything to abuse this, but I like to think that the majority of this community is honorable, honest, considerate, and fair. That majority will most likely far out-weigh the pathetic few who will rate maliciously. I imagine it'd be a very sad individual who has nothing better or more important to do then use dummy accounts for ratings.

Those of us that like to be helpfull could even compile a community guide, to help people make considerate and informed decisions. Tips could be provided, for example: To make sure your rating represents what you really think, play the song a few times a day for a couple days before rating.
The guide might include general things to look for in good and bad songs, things to watch yourself on... anything that could encourage better judgement and improve it for those that want to actively rate songs.

Programming can only do so much to keep it honest. Solid support from the community and a hard-to-miss suggestion that the guide be read before rating can accomplish far more. If we truely want a system we can all be confident in, we have to make sure it's integrity is upheld and constructive, positive criticism is encouraged. It also helps to actively disprove of such behavior as well.

The Bottom Line
A rating system would do a lot, and could possibly lead to other cool features. It'd help those looking for a new song to try. The system would even act kind of like quality control. Online users tend to be brutaly honest and noisy when something is liked or dislike, which would help discourage half-assed or shoddy work. There would be many benefits to out-weigh the detriments. We just have to remember that we collectively have no tolerance for petty shenanigans, disrespectful behavior towards those nice enough to spend time doing songs, and malicious criticism.

(Imgaine that. If creaters are encouraged and helped rather then sliced to ribbons, they're more likely to try improving their skill and produce better results.)

That's just my thought though.

[Patashu]

hey nice first post bro. seriously I appreciate it

[devonin]

Those of us that like to be helpfull could even compile a community guide, to help people make considerate and informed decisions. Tips could be provided, for example: To make sure your rating represents what you really think, play the song a few times a day for a couple days before rating.
The guide might include general things to look for in good and bad songs, things to watch yourself on... anything that could encourage better judgement and improve it for those that want to actively rate songs.

This is a reasonable thing you could simply do on the forums, if you were so inclined without the game needing a coded implementation. However, since the stepfiles in the game are already viewed, rated and judged before they are even accepted into the game at all, a further system of ranking the songs that were already the best of the submissions for a given batch doesn't really seem worth the effort.

Plus with so many different styles and genres of music, and so many different preferences in stepcharts, playstyle etc, the rankings will pretty much all wash out to "average" over time anyhow.

[Sprite-]

Contrary to Devonin's position, I actually support a rating system if and only if it was for subscribers only. That way, someone won't keep making accounts and down-rating a file, unless they want to buy a subscription for all the accounts.. The rating system would really help new users find the good files to play. The top rated songs chart could be split into difficulties so you could have the top rated songs of each difficulty there which would be friendly to all users.

[devonin]

But again, it would all wash out to average. People will be voting both on their enjoyment of the song -and- the percieved quality of the stepfiles, and so there are people who will highly rate all the easy long rock songs because it's the kind of music they are into, and people who will poorly rate them because they can't stand listening to it. EVerything will end up with a 2.5-3.5/5 and not really tell you anything very useful.

[Oni-Paranoia]

Originally Posted by Sprite-

Contrary to Devonin's position, I actually support a rating system if and only if it was for subscribers only. That way, someone won't keep making accounts and down-rating a file, unless they want to buy a subscription for all the accounts.. The rating system would really help new users find the good files to play. The top rated songs chart could be split into difficulties so you could have the top rated songs of each difficulty there which would be friendly to all users.

It should stand more around who has been here longer and who has the songs the most. People like me who haven't subscribed but have played many of FFRs files and have been here some time would deserve to have the choice of rating a file.

EDIT: @ devonin
People will enjoy files differently no matter what. Unless this system was created and a select few FFR gurus were allowed to rate files.

[devonin]

I just think that songs that already made it past judges don't really need a formalized rating system. Especially since people will be rating primarily on subjective personal preference rather than an unbiased analysis of the quality of the file.

[who_cares973]

No offense to the past judges but there are some recent files that pretty much everyone agrees are horrible not only in fun factor but also stepping quality. Id like to see something like this implemented and I agree with sprite that it should be subby only

[Sprite-]

I don't agree with half of the judges' decisions - and I know I'm not the only one.

[tj28]

Originally Posted by jimerax

abuses like making new accounts and multiple voting would happen.

ingame rating system would be nice, but just adding the voting section on this site is ok.

How about one vote per IP?
Could work.

[jimerax]

If usernames/ratings/reasons(optional) are public (meaning we all can see those), this would be fair enough.

Originally Posted by who_cares973

No offense to the past judges but there are some recent files that pretty much everyone agrees are horrible not only in fun factor but also stepping quality.

probably this always happens no matter who judges are.

[Bolth mannn]

itd be better if you make it one vote on the one song each month.

i remember when i started playing, i hated songs like Szamar Mdar, cause i couldnt do any of it and I sucked, now, about half a year later, i love the song.

ratings would change over time, so once a month would be fine.

[mhss1992]

I like it.
But what if I change my opinion about something I rated earlier?

Originally Posted by Sprite-

Contrary to Devonin's position, I actually support a rating system if and only if it was for subscribers only. That way, someone won't keep making accounts and down-rating a file, unless they want to buy a subscription for all the accounts.. The rating system would really help new users find the good files to play. The top rated songs chart could be split into difficulties so you could have the top rated songs of each difficulty there which would be friendly to all users.

Sorry, I don't think it should be for subbies only. How many people would bother creating a lot of accounts just to vote many times on a song? That's retarded and a waste of time. It would also make very little difference in the average, unless they created thousands of profiles.
So people will say that noobs that don't know anything about stepfiles will give absurd ratings to songs, and that will make the average useless. That's unavoidable, and subscribers don't get better judgment skills just because they're subscribers. So, yeah, everybody should have the right to vote, in my opinion.
I would like to become a subscriber, but I don't have enough money or permission.

Originally Posted by tj28

How about one vote per IP?
Could work.

Yeah, I think so too. But I think we should be able to change the ratings anytime we want, or once a day, at least.

[darkandmenacing]

I think Oni-Paranoia has a good concept, though I don't believe exclusivity should be so extreme. What if you had to do a little work to earn the right to rate a song? It would ensure the right kind of exclusivity.
What if you had to complete a song five to ten times within 48 hours, and achieve at least 70%-75% of the maximum possible score three to five times? It would make sure that people aren't trying to rate songs which are far above their skill level. (taking care of the "noobs who can't play" argument.) This requirement would also cater to people that wish to actively rate songs, and players would know that songs are rated by people who care about their ratings. Those who don't care, or people prone to thoughtless or casual rating, won't generaly bother jumping the hoops to rate songs. Once a player earns the right to rate, a scoring scale would appear on the screen after the song. The over-all rating should be part of the blurb of info you get in the bottom right corner when you click on a song. This system also makes it practical to allow free players access to the rating system, as long as they have at least registered an account.

I'm a tad dissapointed to see that us new players are expected to have petty, small minded views on the songs we might rate. I could easily point at the other side of the coin and assume eliteist and experienced players will rate based on haughty, big-headed attitudes as well , But I'd like to make it clear that this isn't my view on either side. I personally have more faith in people, then that.
I'm still fairly new, and songs rated at 7 challenge me. I can generally get about 50% to 75% at level 8 difficulties, depending on the songs. Just because I'm not able to do very good yet, or haven't mastered it yet, doesn't mean I don't enjoy those songs, nor do I blame the steps for my lack of skill. I'm also very capable of seeing steps I know I'll like, even if I'm not yet skilled enough to follow them all. I also enjoy songs accross many (if not all) of the genre's available, even though Metal is the music I grew up on and it's normally what I listen to. This is why I believe a community guide on rating would do a lot of good as well.

I think changing one's rating should be possible, but it should not be easy or convenient. Like, it needs to have been at least a month since your last rating, played the song at least 3 times within 24 hours, achieve at least 90% every time, and they can't be the last person that's rated the song. This would ensure that you'd have to be very serious about changing your rating, or getting to rate again.
In my mind, it would be most effective if player profiles contained a list of songs they rated, their ratings, and could change them (after meeting the above requirements) instead of getting a new vote. This would minimize the number of times the song has been rated, and would still affect the song's overall rating.

Devonin has a valid point that I would like to address as well. Why should they bother adding a player rating system when songs are already rated, judged by appointed individuals, and deemed good enough to be added? That's a good question. I believe I have a reasonable response to that.
A song judged "good enough" isn't given an actual rating. It's simply put into the game. Judges are likely selected based on their experience and good judgement, but thier standards don't necessarily reflect the views of the players. All you have to do is read the previous few posts to know that much. A rating system as I've laid out wouldn't erase the need for judges, the rating system would actually rely on them. The judges could okay the songs that met the requirements of a standardized quality control system, as well as whatever other requirements songs need to meet.
Then we would rate songs which would provide feed-back. Players could see how the song has been rated as they browse, and the system could even create catagories organized by ratings, genre, difficulty, and much more. Also, someone who see's their song and steps put in the game can see just how good or bad their song had done, which could help them. People that submit particularly good stuff, will be more likely to submit more stuff, which could make players happy.

A well thought-out player feed-back system, with solid and positive community support, would definately provide major benefits to this game. I personaly have no doubt in my mind that the potential for improvement makes this system worth-while.

[Tasselfoot]

i've wanted to have a rating system for songs for a very long time. just saying.